—An Interview with Genjo Marinello Osho, Part Two—
>>> Part One: Do Zazen – How to Sit Zazen – The Nature of Reality – Breath
Meditation How: Thank you for sharing that description of posture for sitting meditation practice. You say your mind at times “settles beyond or beneath this transitory phenomenal world” and I wonder what that is like. Is it the mind that settles? Is it pure awareness? Are you in the picture at all at that point?
Genjo: Yes, that’s it, the mind settles, like the ripples on a pond. On occasion when the mind settles, the water of the mind, awareness, becomes pure, clear and undisguised, clearly reflective of reality just as it is. There is a sense of union and being seamless with all creation. Up to this point, there is still a vague sense of self and other, but it doesn’t feel very substantial, almost transparent. At what can be called a deeper or broader settling of mind, self disappears along with any idea of “mind.”
This is a kind of going down the rabbit-hole experience. In this meditation experience whatever is looked at becomes “you”, the whole universe and beyond. It is as though “mind” becomes aware of the unfathomable depths of the “water” of “mind” and all so called phenomenal reality is penetrated and is realized as the vast “black/empty” void. I think an easy way to impart this sort of experience is to think of two mirrors looking into each other, there is an infinite regression into “blackness” or “emptiness.”
Meditation How: I find your response so compelling. I especially like the rabbit-hole image, along with the two mirrors facing each other, just like two people perhaps. I wonder, does this emptiness also feel absolutely full, perhaps of potential? If so, can this potential and fullness be felt?
Genjo: Yes and definitely.
Meditation How: Perfect. I have one more question. I wonder if you could share the contrast you experience if any, between time in meditation and those times when you are not in meditation. Perhaps some indication of how this may have changed over time. In short, the benefits that have carried over into other areas of your life such as relationships, work, etc.
Genjo: Slowly but surely all of life becomes the continuous mindfulness practice of being fully present to whatever activity one is engaged in. As I understand it, this is the point of more structured meditation such as zazen to be the foundation of a life of mindfulness and being present to the presence in all that we do.
Being “present to the presence” is being aware of the “absolute” or “emptiness” or “inconceivable” in everything and in all that we do. I see a progression of practice from chanting, to silence (zazen), to simple motion (kinhin) such as walking, running, Tai Chi…, to simple work (samu) such as sweeping, weeding, chopping vegetables…, to more complex behavior such as one’s work place, relationships and even politics.
Meditation How: I understand. Thank you for participating and sharing so much of your meditation practice.
Genjo: You’re welcome.
About Genjo: Genjo Marinello Osho is the abbot of the Seattle Zen temple, Dai Bai Zan Cho Bo Zen Ji. He has been a Zen meditation practitioner since 1975, was ordained a monk in 1980, became a full priest (Osho) in 1990, and was named a Dharma Heir in his lineage in May of 2008. Read Genjo’s Extended Biography.
